I know I said I wouldn’t talk about this stuff for a “while,” but I stumbled upon this video. I figured I’d put it up here.
Now, just like the Hostos Professor in this clip, I’m not trying to affix a single label to Dominicans. I’m not trying to say Dominicans are overwhelmingly Black, White, or of Indian ancestry. That is not my aim; and I hope that’s not what you interpreted here for however long you’ve been visiting. But as Montilla said, we are all “a byproduct of those groups coming together.”
Look, we are “Latino’s,” but at the same time, we cannot walk around denying our ancestry. We are not a “race,” we are an ethnicity. When I write about this I’m trying to convince “you” that rejecting everything that is dark for the light isn’t right.
And to slide off from Latinos for a moment, at times, I find that Black friends of mine want to be like: “Claudio, you ain’t Latino, you Black man.” And I’m like: “It’s just not that simple.” Then they’ll hit me with the whole “self hate” nonsense. Same thing some Black women hit dark-skin men with when they date light skin women.
First off, I spoke Spanish until I was six. No ingles until that age. My parents are from the Dominican Republic and whether they are light as day or dark as night, I’m still Latino.
I know its not the exact same comparison, but when a Black guy from England tells me he’s “English,” I don’t debate him. Same with a “Black” dude from France who says he’s “French.” Just because those countries are historically associated as being “white,” doesn’t mean everyone else of color who was born there can’t be considered a “Frenchmen or Englishmen” just like them.
But the major part of the problem is the country we currently live in.
We are so used to being divided that we are basically forced to pick sides. And for someone who’s a dark-skin Latino like myself, that can be very difficult. It can be confusing while growing up as you’ve read on this blog. People in America make you feel like you have to claim a side and that’s not right.
But I guess as time goes on and the older generation dies off, things will change. Because this stuff is really frustrating, it really is; and I feel for those kids who look like me and are growing up amongst this BS on Post, Sickles, Arden, Ellwood, Thayer, Nagle, St. Nick, Wadsworth, Academy, Hillside, Isham, Bogardus, Seaman, Fort Wash, Bennett, Audubon, and Amsterdam.
Those individuals who are being trained to think no different of Black people than Trujillo (who had a Haitian mom by the way) or David Duke.
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14 responses right now ↓
1 historia // Aug 19, 2009 at 10:26 am
High Five Cabrera! This is the point I was trying to make in my responses to Dominican Chronicles 5.
People shouldn’t have to claim a side nor should anyone be looked down upon because of dark skin or African ancestry. Its absolute foolishness.
Keep up the good work!
2 Ricky // Aug 19, 2009 at 11:02 am
Man, when those blacks can tell you what country their ancestors are from then they can talk to you about yours. The American Black, myself included, has such f’d up identity issues that to speak with contempt on someone clearly articulating theirs is nothing more than envy.
Self-hate? Please, we Af-ams hop up out the bed and turn our self-hate on with way more tenacity then Mr. Tellem ever did with swag.
3 admin // Aug 19, 2009 at 11:57 am
Thanks historia and Ricky for commenting.
You guys are absolutely right. Its sad when people try to tell you what you are.
It’d be different if I was like: “I have no Black in me. Don’t call me Black.”
But that’s not the case. It’s not like I got this color by tanning.
I just wish people let folks do their own thing. You can educate people if their wrong, but when they clearly aren’t, don’t try to force them into a corner.
4 JoAna // Aug 19, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Really appreciated this article. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had this debate with Dominicans as well as other latinos.
I’ve found it interesting that responses have greatly differed between Dominicans born and raised here in NYC and Dominicans who’ve always lived in DR. It’s such a heated topic.
5 admin // Aug 19, 2009 at 5:57 pm
An extremely heated one it is.
6 KT // Aug 20, 2009 at 9:21 pm
So here is my take on it from observation and interaction. Blacks call Dominicans black because in their eyes they look black–whether they are light, brown, medium or dark. Unless they are white like Ricky Martin, most blacks will consider them black. Certainly here in the states and wherever there are black people, they come in all shades, even in Africa: east africans vs west vs north vs south africans, they are all of different shades and features. Here in the states where we have african americans like beyonce, or blacks like Rihanna or even downright mullatoes like vanessa williams, Alicia Keys and halle berry whom all identify as black (where one parent is undeniably of another race) makes it difficult for African Americans to swallow when many Dominicans say they are not black, simply based on being “mixed” Many African Americans are also mixed. Travel America and you will see black ppl with blue eyes, grey eyes, hazel and brown eyes, black skin, light skin and everything in between. Through american history being mixed didn’t protect you from Jim Crow laws, and I think in the eyes of many Black Americans, if this were the 60s non white skin Dominicans who couldn’t pass as white would be on the “Colored” line with black people. The segregation wasn’t based on “black” “brown” and “white” it was basically non whites and whites. I also know that many black ppl feel like if Dominicans get to call themselves “mixed” then they too should be able to call themselves “mixed” because most blacks in the western hemisphere are not 100% black. They are a bi-product of the diaspora. It can also be contradicting and confusing when you meet other latinos who identify as blacks, many with the same skintone and features as Dominicans. It makes one wonder why is it that dark + brown skin Hondurans, Cubans, Columbians and Venezulans so easily identify as black, but Dominicans dont?
Also many of the issues Dominicans are dealing with were the same issues African Americans dealt with in the 60s and 70s. Acceptance of their skintone, their hair texture etc etc hence James brown who came along and said “i’m black and i’m proud” as a way for black ppl to embrace everything they thought was ugly about them.
Many Dominicans often reply to the statement about “mixing” that there was more mixing in DR compared to the US.
So the reality is by American standards many Dominicans are black. I think through education and exposure African Americans are realizing, yes Dominicans are of mixed heritage. I think friction occurs when Dominicans completely deny their African ancestry. case in point a dominican friend of mine whose parents are both dark skin but he came out light skin, looked me in the eyes and said “yeah my family is of french and taino ancestry” i just smiled to myself. then he turned around and said don’t take this the wrong way but I couldn’t date a dark skin person. And I couldn’t help but think wow i went to ur fam’s house and i see lil babies running around with dark skin and hair like mine. wow lol
I think another point of contention is that African Americans feel like they paved the way for latino immigrants to come here and be successful, an often feel like there is a lack of respect for that struggle and for the rights that latinos so freely take advantage of. But I know many Dominicans are unaware of that history and I think through education and exposure, man of these streotypes can be eradicated (at least i hope)
now don’t get me wrong I am not saying all blacks or all Dominicans are like this. But these are my observations and insights from keeping my ear to the ground.
I also hear from black people that Puerto Ricans are more open and willing to coexist and work with blacks, than Dominicans.
ok i typed it enough, sorry if it was too long.
7 admin // Aug 20, 2009 at 11:36 pm
KT -
Thanks again for another great comment.
I’ll keep this one short; Puerto Ricans have been here longer and have basically grown up side by side with Black folk. That’s why they are more friendly to Blacks, and you see way more mixing between both groups.
I can’t tell you the amount of PR and Black relationships I see daily.
There are a lot of Dominicans that are discriminatory, but also many who care too much what others think. That’s an even bigger problem.
They will pass up a relationship with a good Black man or female because they’re scared of their parents reaction.
Its a damn shame.
8 historia // Aug 21, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Hi KT
Did you see my post of August 15 in response to Dominican Chronicles 5?
Peace.
PS I’m referring to the longest one.
9 KT // Aug 22, 2009 at 3:11 pm
historia,
yes, read it, left you a response on that thread
10 anotherdominican // Sep 5, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Majority of my friends are american blacks and they have THE biggest racial/color issue. “Dominicans” do not have a “predominant” racial makeup because our racial history is so distinctive based on individuated family backgrounds – european (whether spanish, italian or french), taino indian, african, south indian (yes they were there too), even some chinese dominicans…and interracial mixing was encouraged especially with spaniards or other europeans for many generations…
When american blacks look at dominicans and say you are black, they are thrusting their own warped view of their race on another person because of their upbringing in the U.S.
Most Dominicans who have african ancestry “KNOW” they have african ancestry. Even the ones that dont like it. But thats the key – there is a big difference between saying “african ancestry” and “black like me”. Dominican culture, history and language are not “black.” Black refers to a distinctive african -american experience, culture and history, and language. I knew other primarily or wholly of african descent dominicans who had issues with their identities being socially stripped by american blacks – and they were rightfully pissed off. Of course they know they have african ancestry….but to be black is to be an african american. People dont like their history, culture, language, experience, and ultimately, their identities usurped by another larger group for their f’d up mental purposes. Because what I have noticed is that when an african american says “you are black like me” – it is not to lift up, or build a community, or meant as flattery. It is to CAST DOWN. It is to regurgitate everything that they have been told and incorporated in to their own understanding of themselves in relation to OTHERS in english protestant american culture. It is to say “if I am the lowest of the low – then so are YOU and you are NO BETTER than me.”
English-protestant america enforced the one drop rule and prided itself on racial purity.
While clearly carribbean cultures had/have color issues…our social dynamic with other races within our communities historically was RADICALLY different than that compared to american blacks. We may have been encouraged to “lighten and straighten” up, but we never rejected ourselves for something completely other….we only saw it as a “better, more attractive” version of ourselves.
Even carribean black culture does NOT like being identified with american blacks for the same reasons.
Another unfortunate reason which rings true for both latino and west indian blacks for not wanting to be associated as beint black is that there are extremely negative stereotypes about being black in america, stereotypes that west indians and latinos do not want to be associated with. I think the feeling goes – ‘we have our own f’d up issues, we dont need to ADD YOURS on our backs”, when dealing with outsiders.
11 Ernest0 // Oct 5, 2009 at 7:51 am
First let me say, I am of American Black and Dominican combination, something I like to refer to as Black on Black. lol To Wepa thanks again my brother for the thoughtful information, for which you have provided for the masses. This topic is and can be a sensitive one to folks, that are in denial. Yes, we (Dominicans) are composed of all different kind of hues, and yes, we (African-Americans) are just the same. The true problem lies with us the people of the diaspora have no true knowledge of ourselves. We are neither fully Dominican or fully African American, and the rest of the names we want to refer to ourselves as, me included, we are the chosen people of Yahweh Y’srealites, we are the ones that they preach about in the New and Old testament. We are still stiff necked, and rebellious. We are still under a curse, all because we refuse to obey the ONE who has created us.
Deut 28:68 And the YAHWEH shall bring you into Egypt again with ships, by the way wherof I spoke unto you, You shall see it no more again: and there you shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
Yet even to this day we argue amongst ourselves we hate ourselves, and we want to distant ourselves from ourselves!!
Deuteronomy 4:27-31 And the YAHWEH shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the YAHWEH shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. But if from thence thou shalt seek the YAHWEH EL SHADDAI, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Alot, of people want to be upset, and mad at what Yahweh are perfect father did to us, but like I wrote before, HE is perfect, and HE is not a man that he should lie, so we must first turn back to our Father who created us, can chose us for a people to be his own calling on his holy name, and then we will know our true identity!!!!
Jeremiah 12:9 Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour. Wake up Y’srealites they may call you, African-American(negro), Dominican, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Haitians, West Indian, Guatemalan to Panama, Cubans, North American Indian, Seminole Indian, Latino or Hispanic…..Really you are true descendant of your father Abraham the chosen people of our EL SHADDAI “Yahweh!”
12 admin // Oct 5, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Thanks again ernesto for the comment.
You definitely came from a different angle with the bible perspectives. Good stuff man. I hope you continue visiting.
13 Briana // Oct 18, 2009 at 5:11 am
More often than not when an “African American” or anyone else for that matter refers to a Dominican as black, they are refering to skin color. You can be Dominican and dark as night, if someone calls you black and you say that your not black it sounds ignorant. Now if someone ask you what your Nationality is than obviously you would say Dominican.
14 admin // Oct 18, 2009 at 9:11 am
Totally agree with that Briana. My whole thing is when people who know nothing about you try to term you what they want. I can call myself Latino and say I have African Ancestry; and I’m probably viewed by the majority of America as a Black man; and not a Latino man because they think all Latino’s are indian colored and lighter.
If someone came up to me and said “your black right?” I’d say obviously, but my parents are from the Dominican Republic so I also consider myself Latino. That’s just how I approach things.
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